- arm-netbook - Mailman test

FPGA video decoder
by David Niklas 26 Jun '17

26 Jun '17

Hello, Some time ago Luke et al was discussing using an FPGA to decode video but thought it too expensive. Well, not that this changes anything, but I found this little beauty wile looking at something else: https://alphamaxmedia.com/w/index.php?title=NeTV2 Sincerely, David

1 0

Re: [Arm-netbook] early access EOMA68 to hardware for parabola ARM maintainers?
by Andreas Grapentin 25 Jun '17

25 Jun '17

Hi, to pick up this discussion again, Parabola has concluded that we will for the time being need only one preview card, and I will privately pay for it in full. following are the contact information for the hacker in question: Andreas Grapentin (me) <andreas(a)grapentin.org> Potsdam, Germany I can provide a complete address through a more private channel :) Best, Andreas -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ my GPG Public Key: https://files.grapentin.org/.gpg/public.key ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

4 9

Re: [Arm-netbook] mali gpu reverse engineering lkcl may ignore
by Mike Leimon 24 Jun '17

24 Jun '17

On 06/23/2017 11:29 AM, Bill Kontos wrote: > On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 4:27 PM, David Niklas <doark(a)mail.com> wrote: > >> Now can we get back to how to do the reverse engineering itself? > Someone should suggest Luc to open a monthly patreon-styled donation > page for working on lima. If ARM is still as openly hostile as they appear to be towards reverse engineering of their GPU designs, I don't think that pursuing lima development is a very good option. I suspect that if development of the driver resumes, they will probably continue their horrible crusade against Luc and I don't want to see that happen to anybody. I think that if we are really trying to play the long game here, then that money would be better spent working towards the development of an open GPU design that we can can use in future risc-v SOCs. Perhaps another option that might be more amenable and rewarding for Luc. Would be to open a monthly patron-styled donation page not to develop lima drivers, but instead to work together with people like Jeff Bush (the main guy developming the Nyuzi GPGPU: https://github.com/jbush001/NyuziProcessor ). To me (and I haven't read into it much) it seems like, the focus thus far for the Nyuzi project is only on developing the GPGPU and not so much looking at it from the point of view of, how would we write a Linux driver for this device. I think if we focused some money on Luc (driver developer) and the Nyuzi (hardware developer) developers, then they might be more inspired to focus their efforts on producing a quality GPGPU and supporting drivers. Honestly, I think that working together with people who are openly developing a GPU design and who would probably be quite welcoming of assistance from Luc would be a much better situation for him than if he went back to trying to working on the lima driver. Perhaps a company like si-five ( https://www.sifive.com/ ) or the risc-v organization might even consider trying to sponsor a collaboration like this as having a good open GPU implementation would certainly be a boon to them in the future. Anyhow, that is my two cents. -Mike

4 4

Re: [Arm-netbook] mali gpu reverse engineering lkcl may ignore
by doark＠mail.com 23 Jun '17

23 Jun '17

On Mon, 22 May 2017 12:05:28 +0200 "mike.valk(a)gmail.com" <mike.valk(a)gmail.com> wrote: > 2017-05-22 0:06 GMT+02:00 <ronwirring(a)safe-mail.net>: > > > Because I deleted a previously email about this subject, I start a new > > email. > > Info. Lkcl said, he is not in favor of reverse engineering a mali gpu. > > Because it is about 150000eu and new gpus will emerge during the > > reverse engineering and the outcome is uncertain. > > > > I agree on his arguments. > > I assume you do not agree. > > > 150000eu is a crowd funding of 30000 people, each 5eu. I would pay an > > extra 5eu to be able to buy a source code computer. > > > > The issue with revese engineering the MALI gpu's is not justs about > money. ARM ltd. actively Seeks and destroys attempts on a OSS mail > driver. > > So that money needed is not only going to coding but is probably also > needed for legel fees and marketing against the smear and laster > campaign. > > They have already made one person's life very difficult: > http://libv.livejournal.com/ > I'd do it in a heart beat in spite of the evil people out there if I had the skills. Incidentally, couldn't you do this in an mostly automated fashion? I mean: 1. Have computer program send bits to GPU 2. Have same program read bits from EDP (or whatever), to determine result and time spend on task. 4. Have another program create a spread sheet for the in-out-time info and stats. 3. Have developer look at these and code. > > I do not know if 30000 people are interested or if they can agree on > > one board. > > > > But freeing MALI would help a lot of devices out there. So I'd trough in > some bucks. RE'ing MALI would not be for just one board. Agreed. It must be for all boards and support opengl, opencl, vulkan. > > You cannot get the mali source code faster, if you put more people on > > it? > > Finding the right minds and right amount of them working on the same > thing is a hard equation. > > You could add me to that team but my skills would be of limited use. > Adding someone of the same skill set would probably be even less > effective. > > So more money or more people is not the solutions. The right people and > the right amount is needed. > Well, I'd put ten dollars to a campaign like this without a HW reward. I'm assuming that beings that there are so many Mali GPUs and hacker boards out there that other people would also be very interested in this. What would I need to know to do this? Quick, point me to the books! No, really, I would do such a thing, I don't have a lot to loose, though for free I'd be taking my time... But still, I'd need an education. Thanks, David

8 19

EOMA68-A20 2.7.4 pre-production prototypes received and working
by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton 23 Jun '17

23 Jun '17

i received the latest pre-production cards yesterday and have tested one of them: it works. however (and this is the whole point of doing pre-production prototypes) in endeavouring to use automated assembly and solder paste it was discovered that the VIAs underneath the pads for the JAE DC3 Micro-HDMI connector are sucking the solder paste in and down, leaving the pins not properly connected. the factory's engineer hand-soldered the 10 samples, but we cannot possibly do 1,000 PCBs by hand.... so it is necessary to do some test PCBs to work out how to get these connectors, with utterly tiny pins (0.25mm wide) to stick, given that the tracks simply have to come up from underneath using VIAs. VIAs coming up on a pad is generally bad because it's a hole down which the solder paste simply... sucks down. if anyone knows any tricks i would appreciate hearing them. i was thinking of creating the pad with a triangular end, placing the VIA right at the end so that the solder paste can't "wick away". anyone got any other ideas? l. --- crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68

10 39

early access EOMA68 to hardware for parabola ARM maintainers?
by Andreas Grapentin 22 Jun '17

22 Jun '17

(I sent this message before, but I suspect it didn't get delivered because I wasn't subscribed to the mailing list, so here I go again.) Hello everyone, I represent the hackers in charge of maintaining the parabola ARM port. As you know, the 'libre tea' computer card will be shipped with parabola preinstalled, and we are currently working hard on getting our ARM port in shape. Unfortunately, at the moment we have two problems: a) lack of compute resources - we need some actual ARM boards of the right architecture to build - and especially test - packages b) lack of information - we don't know enough about the particularities of the EOMA68 cards to be able to tell how well our port works on them Hence my question: would be possible for us to get early access to a couple of the EOMA68 devices in advance, so that we can make sure that our ARM port is up and running when the cards are to be shipped? We are very excited about this project (many of us have actually pre-ordered cards), and we want to be able to deliver the best possible version of our GNU/Linux distribution that we can produce. Best, Andreas -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ my GPG Public Key: https://files.grapentin.org/.gpg/public.key ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

5 12

Re: [Arm-netbook] Arm Netbook, Saw the update,
by ronwirring＠Safe-mail.net 22 Jun '17

22 Jun '17

> SoC, the RK3388 (yes it really does exist). also i'm waiting for some Was it not rk3399? > arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook(a)lists.phcomp.co.uk > http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook > Send large attachments to arm-netbook(a)files.phcomp.co.uk

3 4

Oops. Sorry for sending all the junk to the mailing list
by el_gallo_azul 22 Jun '17

22 Jun '17

Hello world. I realised when I received the auto-reply that I had been naughty. I sent the message again without all the extras, but too late. Sorry! Greg Flint

2 1

test, please ignore
by Andreas Grapentin 21 Jun '17

21 Jun '17

gpg test no. 2, please ignore. -A -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ my GPG Public Key: https://files.grapentin.org/.gpg/public.key ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1 0

test, please ignore
by Andreas Grapentin 21 Jun '17

21 Jun '17

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 gpg test, please ignore. - -A - -- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ my GPG Public Key: https://files.grapentin.org/.gpg/public.key - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEv6gAioJlZ3BjsRv0cXGYbkt0VTYFAllKZSAACgkQcXGYbkt0 VTbmVgf/aKhPab4t4ErUDuajnh9v7APXVW09E4I1NYrCZ6X9BjN8D3dcmFVr/4nh rBrfxu0Vm93TL9DsqNnbDQVBs6uj4OttzytSDCIsPVyz2Xr9liNH/hU5A4MrdV7Y ZV16yHPUOavClpuW9HFAYTJuQDsAGee5lmcCIlOp9MN5hat/l2Nwyvq/RxOIQVB0 Vtudg5b+4iqzdlXN4t2wxeBBWhonLvtHoTQvuf5zuKfOeW+0tmc1AGHI0Ebi+JWj AR4cQyBp2L+YkD8kOPong3iJJ0/t8luY9tv3J2bwvCoQVGor0N92vEjeCMgr8NwH gowRd67SAi226c1npMmc0+yR5T152Q== =KzTH -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

1 0

Re: [Arm-netbook] mailing list etiquette
by ronwirring＠Safe-mail.net 21 Jun '17

21 Jun '17

From: Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton <lkcl(a)lkcl.net>Apparently from: arm-netbook- > On Sat, Jun 17, 2017 at 6:35 PM, <ronwirring(a)safe-mail.net> wrote: > > do you, through not listening to what you are being told, *genuinely* > wish to force me to take such action? No. I maintain that I prefer an email to display all previous pieces of information.

7 9

Re: [Arm-netbook] mailing list etiquette
by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton 21 Jun '17

21 Jun '17

On Sun, Jun 18, 2017 at 9:59 PM, Brendan Sleight <bms.debian(a)barwap.com> wrote: >>> On Sat, Jun 17, 2017 at 6:35 PM, <ronwirring(a)safe-mail.net> wrote: >> No. I maintain that I prefer an email to display all previous > > No doubt you do, but this is a community. “Logic clearly dictates that > the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.” - Spock it's a leetle more complex than that, brendan, but... yeah. > Luke - I would be grateful if you could reduce the members on this > list to those who can follow the RFC. i am reluctant to take such draconian action without going through intermediate less drastic steps, explained at each and every stage to give him an opportunity to understand fully the gravity and consequences (inconvenience to others), so i've placed his messages under moderation as an intermediate step. that makes for a hell of a lot of otherwise unnecessary work for me but that's just how these things go. l.

3 3

EOMA68-A20 2.7.4 pre-production prototypes received and working
by Andrew Bolin 18 Jun '17

18 Jun '17

> > Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2017 15:02:07 +0100 > From: Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton <lkcl(a)lkcl.net> > > it was discovered that the VIAs underneath the pads for the JAE DC3 > Micro-HDMI connector are sucking the solder paste in and down, leaving > the pins not properly connected. > ... if anyone knows any tricks i would appreciate hearing them. > Can you enlarge the solder mask for these pads, thus providing enough solder to both fill the via and make the connection? This is the standard recommendation when using thermal pads / thermal vias.

2 1

u-boot A20 sunxi, added SPL dual MMC boot
by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton 18 Jun '17

18 Jun '17

http://git.rhombus-tech.net/?p=u-boot.git;a=shortlog;h=refs/heads/sunxi it's a feature that's present in quite a lot of versions of u-boot but not in the sunxi one: i added a means to check *two* MMC slots in the early SPL loader. the problem without such a feature is: you can only boot from one MMC slot, even if you compile u-boot with support for two MMC slots... because the early SPL loader *only recognises loading u-boot from one MMC slot*. for those people not familiar with the A20 boot process: http://linux-sunxi.org/BROM#A10.2FA20 the BROM loads from a very specific sector of either MMC0 or MMC2 (in that order). maximum code size: 16k bytes. loading a full u-boot is not possible so u-boot has to be boot-strapped (aka SPL loader). the *existing* sunxi SPL loader *only* supports loading from a *single* MMC card slot. l. --- crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68

1 0

mailing list etiquette
by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton 18 Jun '17

18 Jun '17

On Sat, Jun 17, 2017 at 7:14 PM, Lars Kruse <lists(a)sumpfralle.de> wrote: > Hi Ron, > > > Am Sat, 17 Jun 2017 13:35:59 -0400 > schrieb ronwirring(a)Safe-mail.net: > >> [..] >> I prefere if others leave the full text in their emails. >> I prefere to not delete text in my own replies. >> I cannot make that decision about my replies? > > I could image, that Luke would like the participants of this mailinglist to use > a style similar to the one defined in RFC1985 ("Netiquette", see section 2.1.1): https://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc1855.txt RFC 1855 not 1955. took a few minutes to find it. section 2.1.1 is a little dated, but 95% relevant. interestingly it contains no specific advice for mailing list interaction. this example contains good advice on mailing list etiquette: http://linux.sgms-centre.com/misc/netiquette.php please read - and follow and adhere to - section 9, ron. please also follow the link which leads here and read it: http://howto-pages.org/posting_style/ > Be brief without being overly terse. When replying to a message, > include enough original material to be understood but no more. It > is extremely bad form to simply reply to a message by including > all the previous message: edit out all the irrelevant material. > > > Since Luke maintains this mailinglist, I find it to be acceptable, that he > can define the communication policy of this list, if he prefers so. i do. i used to be quite lax about it but i feel it is becoming important. > Specifically in this case he is following a widely used style - even though we > are all aware of the fact, that there are different communities or contexts out > there using very different styles with regard to quoting. for a "chatty" list such as a support self-help (e.g. alcoholics anonymous) group, top-posting would be the norm as most people would interact with either single-sentence (top-posted) replies of encouragement, or they would write massive walls-of-text to which it would be typically be perfectly fine to top-post. this list is not such a list. this is a technical list and it can get very busy and very complex very quickly. following interaction rules that have been developed over many decades for technical lists would be a good idea. http://howto-pages.org/posting_style/ l.

1 0

mailing list etiquette
by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton 18 Jun '17

18 Jun '17

On Sat, Jun 17, 2017 at 6:35 PM, <ronwirring(a)safe-mail.net> wrote: >> ron hi please remember to cut context. there is 3 paragraphs >> comprising several hundred words, repeated, followed by a single >> sentence and then a single-sentence question. >> >> these last two sentences are the only relevant context: the rest of >> the context you have forced over 400 people to re -read unnecessarily. > > > > I have not forced anyone to read anything. ron: there are over 400 people on this list. many of them receive hundreds of messages per day. they read them all. they do not know that you are violating the rules of the list until they begin to read your message. when they find, after several seconds of scrolling down, that their time has been completely wasted because nothing has been added, they are going to be pissed. > Anyone may ignore my emails. ron: if the mailing list administrator tells you that you're disobeying the rules of interaction which put people to significant inconvenience, do you believe that it is ok to respond with such a sentence? > You know where to look. It is where there are no '>'. and how long does it take to do that? it takes a long time, ron. people are forced to scroll down for a significant amount of time. if they have a hundred or several hundred messages to read each day, and they are forced to scroll down more than is necessary only to find that there was nothing new added, because there is one person who does not respect the rules which make their lives easier, how long do you think they are going to continue to contribute to that llist? > I prefere if others leave the full text in their emails. that is fine if you are interacting privately: it is not fine when you are interacting with 400 people. you have been asked multiple times to respect the rules of the list. > I prefere to not delete text in my own replies. your personal preferences are not relevant when it comes to interacting with 400 other people. > I cannot make that decision about my replies? yes you can, because you are being requested to do so by the mailing list administrator. out of respect for others, you are being requested to follow the rules of interaction set for this list. you do not set the rules for this list: i set the rules for this list. i get the impression that you are not really listening or respecting what i am saying, ron. that therefore forces me to escalate matters. if you do not respond indicating that you intend to respect the rules of this list (standard netiquette) then reluctantly i will be forced to escalate to moderation of your messages until such time as you do listen. this will place a huge burden of extra work onto me, as for every single message that you send i will receive a notification, then i will be forced to go to a web interface, then i will be forced to read and review your message in full, and then either approve or reject i, writing a review each and every time explaining why your message is being rejected, should it be rejected. do you, through not listening to what you are being told, *genuinely* wish to force me to take such action? what do you think the implications would be of forcing me to take such action to protect this list and its members? would you agree that it would be a good idea for you to say "whoops i'm sorry, i understand now that this is serious, i will listen and follow your advice so that i do not inconvenience so many people" ? l.

1 0

Fwd: [trinity-devel] TDE Fundraiser
by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton 17 Jun '17

17 Jun '17

please do distribute to interested parties / lists, TDE (aka KDE 3.5) is strategically quite important as it's one of the remaining comprehensive desktop environments that is also light-weight and relevant. l. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Timothy Pearson <kb9vqf(a)pearsoncomputing.net> Date: Wed, Apr 19, 2017 at 7:19 PM Subject: [trinity-devel] TDE Fundraiser To: trinity-devel(a)lists.pearsoncomputing.net -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA224 All, It's that time of year again! As we look toward the release of Debian Stretch and another version of TDE, I'd like to ask for your continued support to help keep TDE online. This year I'm going to try something new. If you donate $40 to TDE [1], I will allow 2 months access to the nightly build repositories that now include Debian Stretch and Raspbian Jessie. Additionally, I'd like those who donate at this level to nominate two bugs that I will personally look into (excepting those relating to support for Wayland, Qt4/Qt5, or Webkit). This way your donations have a direct and positive effect on TDE itself, and TDE can continue to exist in its current form. Personally I would suggest the LibreOffice integration bug or possibly an update of the GTK3 theme engine to fix the rendering bugs as potential candidates, but in the end it's up to you! A full listing of open bugs is available here: http://bugs.trinitydesktop.org/buglist.cgi?bug_status=__open__&content=&no_… As always, thank you for your support and continued feedback -- we couldn't develop TDE without it! Tim [1] https://trinitydesktop.org/donate.php -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) iFYEARELAAYFAlj3qjAACgkQLaxZSoRZrGEhXwDcDpHwUy8Z77OEEKHrdVMSqlcW 6uT+v3pMwqNAXQDeM9WnwPpziYGFQIsfb5I6DiVBLNsZaBL2tab+yw== =FFOS -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: trinity-devel-unsubscribe(a)lists.pearsoncomputing.net For additional commands, e-mail: trinity-devel-help(a)lists.pearsoncomputing.net Read list messages on the web archive: http://trinity-devel.pearsoncomputing.net/ Please remember not to top-post: http://trinity.pearsoncomputing.net/mailing_lists/#top-posting

9 25

Re: [Arm-netbook] bunnie about riscv
by ronwirring＠Safe-mail.net 17 Jun '17

17 Jun '17

-------- Original Message -------- From: Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton <lkcl(a)lkcl.net> Apparently from: arm-netbook-bounces(a)lists.phcomp.co.uk To: Eco-Conscious Computing <arm-netbook(a)lists.phcomp.co.uk> Subject: Re: [Arm-netbook] bunnie about riscv Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2017 09:30:45 +0100 > ron hi please remember to cut context. there is 3 paragraphs > comprising several hundred words, repeated, followed by a single > sentence and then a single-sentence question. > > these last two sentences are the only relevant context: the rest of > the context you have forced over 400 people to re -read unnecessarily. I have not forced anyone to read anything. Anyone may ignore my emails. You know where to look. It is where there are no '>'. I prefere if others leave the full text in their emails. I prefere to not delete text in my own replies. I cannot make that decision about my replies? > > please consider the impact that you are having on the members of the > list by following the required etiquette which, by following it, i am > permitting you to be a member of this list. > > thank you for understanding and respecting the interaction rules of this list. > > l. > > On Tue, Jun 13, 2017 at 6:30 PM, <ronwirring(a)safe-mail.net> wrote: > > >> > We should have libre software hdds and ram. > >> > >> Can you elaborate on that a bit? I don't understand what you mean. > > https://www.theverge.com/2015/2/16/8048243/nsa-hard-drive-firmware-virus-st… > > > > > > > > > > Devices like hdd, ram, sd card have their own system software. > > You cannot access it and do not know what it can do. > > https://opencores.org/ > > _______________________________________________ > arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook(a)lists.phcomp.co.uk > http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook > Send large attachments to arm-netbook(a)files.phcomp.co.uk

2 1

DIY laptop part 1: screen
by David Niklas 17 Jun '17

17 Jun '17

BTW: This little series has little to nothing to do with the eoma68. Don't feel obligated to reply. Hello, For a while now I've been working on making myself a new laptop. I wanted one that was 17 in. wide. It has proven difficult to locate a screen, I have search alibaba, amazon, and a few other assorted site without success. I need one that has: 1. Matte finish 2. 17 in. wide, not diagonally. 3. eDP 30 pin connector or MIPI-DSI connector. 4. 16.7 Million colours -- that would be 8-bit colour as opposed to 6-bit which you can find many of on alibaba. 5. Preferably, it is a touchscreen. If anyone has suggestions please point me in the right direction. Thanks, David

3 4

Re: [Arm-netbook] bunnie about riscv
by ronwirring＠Safe-mail.net 14 Jun '17

14 Jun '17

-------- Original Message -------- From: Neil Jansen <njansen1(a)gmail.com> Apparently from: arm-netbook-bounces(a)lists.phcomp.co.uk To: Eco-Conscious Computing <arm-netbook(a)lists.phcomp.co.uk> Subject: Re: [Arm-netbook] bunnie about riscv Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2017 11:07:56 -0400 Thank you for the information. I have watched a rutkowska video on how complicated intel's management features are. Difficult. > On Sat, Jun 10, 2017 at 11:54 AM, <ronwirring(a)safe-mail.net> wrote: > > > It was very informative. A lot of the technical matter I did not > understand. > > This was a GREAT talk. Thanks for the link. > > > Can you explain: > > 23.04 The 2 lowermost boxes? > > 1) PDK / Foundries. The factories in which the chips are made in. They're > not open. They're proprietary and there's a implication of trust. > 2) Equipment / Raw Materials. The equipment that makes the chips and the > raw materials that go into the chips. All a very cloudy and and murky area > that is not open, and very proprietary. > > He's basically saying that those that want *100%* open source hardware > would require infinite recursion down to the raw components, which is > impossible. That's the whole point of the talk. The 'impedance mismatch' > thing is a sort of metaphor to describe the unrealistic expectations of > those idealists that want 100% open source hardware. He's saying it cannot > happen today. And BTW I've met Bunnie on several occasions, he's legit, > and you can trust what he's saying to be technically correct. He's the > real deal. > > > What is a stepper? > > A stepper motor. That is, do you trust the motors that move the machines > that made the integrated circuits? > > > What is fuse? > > See this link: > https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/1262/what-are-atmel-fuses > > > > 25.15 The 4 lowermost boxes? > > * BIOS > * Firmware > * Hidden / fused silicon blocks - Blocks of silicon on the chip that aren't > usually turned on, but are there. Lots of big vendors are doing this now: > Intel, AMD, Nvidia, and it's anyone's guess as to what their real purpose > is. That leads to conspiracy theories, as Bunnie said. This is a problem > because if you put a chip like this into an open source laptop, it begs the > question of what would happen if something turned on that section and > started execution code from it? Nobody will know until (A) documentation > is leaked from the company or (B) someone reverse engineers it. Basically > if you use anything application processor chip made in the last 5-10 years, > you probably have some hidden / fused silicon blocks doing god knows what. > * Pre-boot microcode - Microcode (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microcode) > that executes BEFORE your computer boots. This is a big deal, because > everything that happens after this point can be considered suspect. > (similar to how a boot virus would spread because it executes first). > * IP industry practices - Intellectual property used by silicon > manufacturers that are not open. What he's saying is, say that you're a > silicon vendor and you just bought a intellectual property from ARM to make > an ARM chip. They're giving you HDL (hardware description language) and > netlists (a large list of the connections to be made in the die), and guess > what, they gave them to you encrypted so that their intellectual property > is safe. You (the guy that runs a third party chip factory) cannot review > or inspect the intellectual property that ARM gave you. The point here is > that unless you're using an open source (RISC-V, etc) core, then using an > ARM isn't really 100% open source hardware. > * Mask trojans & glitches - These are malicious things in the CPU die > itself, that even if you were looking at the silicon die under a microscope > and studying it, you'd still completely miss it. Very nasty but they Remarkable that you cannot do a verification using a microscope. > exist. Hackaday.com has a lot of interesting articles that break these > sort of things down in layman's terms. Very interesting. Basically > because these exist, there's no way to know that you are really executing > what you think you are executing unless you built the foundry and > supervised the chips being made, and analyzed everything that went into the > manufacture of them. It's a trust problem. > > These are all highly complex subjects that hardware engineers like Bunnie > deal with a lot, and other (I'll say idealist) software guys probably have > never thought of. They're important in that when you realize that they're > there, you will then understand how silly wanting 100% open hardware really > is. It's a huge problem that hardly anybody is trying to fix. > > > Recently the 6502 was completely dissected and recreated, so that's one of > the only fully documented (and I'd say fully trusted) cores out there > today. And that was made probably before I was born. Everything since > that should be assumed to be compromised and < 100% open. Oh, and even > then, the 6502 would have to hook up to OTHER chips like flash, RAM, and > whatever generates the video and handles the peripherals. Those have not > been completely dissected, and could be suspect. Do you see what Bunnie > means now? That's the impedance mismatch. > > We should have libre software hdds and ram. > P.S. my apologies to LKCL and others, I don't have a plain text email > client. > _______________________________________________ > arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook(a)lists.phcomp.co.uk > http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook > Send large attachments to arm-netbook(a)files.phcomp.co.uk

5 5

Re: [Arm-netbook] bunnie about riscv
by ronwirring＠Safe-mail.net 14 Jun '17

14 Jun '17

From: Neil Jansen <njansen1(a)gmail.com> > On Sun, Jun 11, 2017 at 4:38 PM, <ronwirring(a)safe-mail.net> wrote: > > Thank you for the information. > > I have watched a rutkowska video on how complicated > > intel's management features are. > > Difficult. > > That's why I'm here, lol. The Intel stuff is getting bad enough that it > has me wondering what I can do for the open source hardware world. Moving > to ARM via EOMA68 is a good near-term solution, but even that's not going > to be 100% trustable at lest by bunnie's standards in the lecture. > Something like RISC-V has the potential to get there, but as he pointed > out, even that's not completely open. I think right now the important > thing is to just be an early adopter of this stuff to show that the > market's there. bunnie broke the demographics down pretty well, there's > definitely money to be made. Back to Intel though. It makes me want to > jump on eBay and pick up some older vintage Intel CPU's that didn't have > the management features, but obviously there's no way to know if those > aren't blown wide open by other means. Man, very interesting times we live > in. > > > > Remarkable that you cannot do a verification using a microscope. > > You can do exactly this, and it'll get you to maybe 99% of the way there. > Companies like ChipWorks do exactly this for money. Others do it for hobby > (see: http://www.visual6502.org/, http://siliconpr0n.org/, > https://zeptobars.com/en/, http://www.righto.com/). It can often get great > results. bunnie was playing devils advocate by saying even if you did > this, there are still things that can be present but in an obfuscated > manner, that could be malicious or careless. This doesn't really mean to > throw the baby out with the bathwater. Having a reverse engineered CPU > with a small possibility of shenanigans is still better than having a 100% > proprietary CPU or a 50% proprietary CPU. Security through obscurity and > all that. > > > > We should have libre software hdds and ram. > > Can you elaborate on that a bit? I don't understand what you mean. https://www.theverge.com/2015/2/16/8048243/nsa-hard-drive-firmware-virus-st… Devices like hdd, ram, sd card have their own system software. You cannot access it and do not know what it can do. https://opencores.org/ > _______________________________________________ > arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook(a)lists.phcomp.co.uk > http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook > Send large attachments to arm-netbook(a)files.phcomp.co.uk

2 1

Re: [Arm-netbook] modifying a 7 inch notebook cabinet toacceptapccard
by ronwirring＠Safe-mail.net 13 Jun '17

13 Jun '17

> On 10/06/17 06:03, ronwirring(a)Safe-mail.net wrote: > > About the battery. If I can find an usb power bank having the right > > specifications, I could then use the power bank to power the > > computer and if I wanted to be able to charge the battery and > > have the computer turned on at the same time, I could get > > a charger with 2 usb connectors? > > With a power bank this might work, because they (AFAIK) all have their > charging circuitry inside the power bank and take a straight-up voltage > source to charge. It won't make too much difference how you connect them > as long as you have adequate gauge wires for all connections. > > If you're dealing with Li-ion cells, it's not recommended. It has to do > with how Li-ion charging works. In short the charge schedule (most > notable in a "fast" charge, meaning anything less than 5 hours or so) is > constant current at a rate the battery can handle to voltage, and then > constant voltage as the current tapers off to nearly nothing. > > The upshot of this is that trying to power a device with the > battery/charger combo while charging the battery will confuse any decent > charger (and if it isn't a decent charger you SHOULD NOT use it). The > only way around this is a charge controller designed for such use that > has three sets of terminals. One for a source, one for battery, and one > for load. The charge controller is then able to distinguish the load > from the battery charge current and charge it intelligently. Your lowermost section, I do not follow. Let us assume you somehow are able to get the battery bank into the computer's cabinet. Let us say, you use an usb port on the usb battery bank to both charge the usb battery bank and power supply the pc card. In order to power the pc card, you would have an usb cable connecting the power bank and the pc card. I have no power banks. Looking around, it appears power banks have a port for getting charged and one for power supplying devices. In general, are you sure, you cannot charge a power bank and simultaneously have it power supplying a device? If the power bank can be charged and power supply a device simultaneously you would connect another usb cable from the charger which charges the power bank to the power bank. Else if the power bank gets empty, you would remove the usb cable connecting the power bank and the pc card. Then connect an usb cable from the charger of the power bank to the power bank. I suggest to use a https://www.att.com/chargers/att-42a-dual-usb-low-draw-universal-wall-charg… if you want to charge the power bank and turn on the pc card at the same time. One usb cable from the charger to the power bank. One usb cable form the charger to the pc card. > > Tor > > -- > Tor Chantara > http://www.fineartmarquetry.com/ > 808-828-1107 > GPG Key: 2BE1 426E 34EA D253 D583 9DE4 B866 0375 134B 48FB > *Be wary of unsigned emails* > Stop spying: http://www.resetthenet.org/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook(a)lists.phcomp.co.uk > http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook > Send large attachments to arm-netbook(a)files.phcomp.co.uk

3 2

Re: [Arm-netbook] why are notebook devices not usb?
by David Niklas 13 Jun '17

13 Jun '17

On Sat, 27 May 2017 18:56:18 +0100 Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton <lkcl(a)lkcl.net> wrote: > On Sat, May 27, 2017 at 6:16 PM, Christopher Havel > <laserhawk64(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > Money. It's cheaper to do it that way.. > > yyep. this s pretty much.. errr... on the money > > > There's also the form factor to consider -- to an extent, there are no > > standards for laptop gadgetry because there's no way to do that. > > Different laptop sizes and shapes require differently-sized and > > -shaped crap inside. > > ... all completely optimised and customised based around what they > can get hold of, or what the reference design from intel is (which > will have specific power requirements and thermal requirements)...then > there is the constant demand for "thin-ness" which, as chris says, > means that a CUSTOM CONNECTOR gets ordered and made... and you can't > get hold of them. > > ron i wrote a long time ago when developing the tablet, about using a > single embedded controller which only costs $1, instead of putting in > a $1 USB hub, a $1.50 USB camera, a $1 USB audio IC and so on. <snip> Do you still know where your write up is? Thanks, David

2 1

EOMA68 card news
by Nick Hardiman 12 Jun '17

12 Jun '17

Where should I look for news about EOMA68 card production? http://rhombus-tech.net/ home is out of date. https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68/micro-desktop/updates has May’s update about 3D printing, I guess for the micro-desktop and laptop. http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/pipermail/arm-netbook/ has plenty of threads, mainly kicking ideas around. Thanks, Nick

2 3

FYI: risc-v 6 workshop proceedings 2017 now available
by David Niklas 12 Jun '17

12 Jun '17

This is just me trying to be friendly and informative. Talks are here (I've not listened to them yet): https://riscv.org/2017/05/6th-risc-v-workshop-proceedings/ You're welcome, David

1 0

2025

2024

2023

2022

2021

2020

2019

2018

2017

2016

2015

2014

2013

arm-netbook